Lately I’ve seen several links on Facebook to various articles on determining how much solar power you need for your boat (or camper, or even a home).
After reading several, I felt compelled to chime in with my two cents. And, as is often the case, my views are a little different from the experts.
Basically, I think all the info about how to compute your electrical demand and calculate how many watts of solar will meet that demand are a great starting point. I just don’t think they are the ending point.
I think that neither calculation can be made with any degree of precision in general and the estimates are even more likely to be wrong if you haven’t yet cruised for more than a week or two at a time or only in a different locale than your long-term cruising plans.
The Demand Side
Typically, these articles tell you to do an energy audit. They say to list every single electrical appliance on your boat, figure out how much each runs per day, look up how much each draws when it’s on, and calculate the total usage in terms of amp-hours.
It’s great in theory.
But it’s virtually impossible to know in advance what you’ll use and for how many hours each day! It’s particularly hard to know before you’ve cruised in a particular area, but even experienced cruisers have a hard time knowing exactly what their usage is.
- There can be considerable variation from one day to the next in general.
- If you cruise to a warmer climate, the refrigerator and fans will run far more than you expect. There’s both the temperature difference and — for the refrigerator — you’ll be drinking far more cold drinks over the course of a day, and every warm drink that has to be chilled increases the load on the refrigerator. Seasonal variations will occur too! It’s not unusual for the refrigerator to run twice as much (or more) when full-time cruising in warm climates than it did on weekends in cooler climates.
- If you have a 12v watermaker, you’ll probably make more water than you expect when it’s hot, both for drinking and for showers.
- Friends may stop by to chat and you end up with more lights on and maybe some music too. Oops, that wasn’t in the energy budget.
- How can you estimate an “average” amount for extra lights to work on an emergency repair?
- Taking photos, posting to a blog or Facebook or even just checking on weather can add quite a bit as cameras, computers, tablets and cell phones all have to be charged.
- And if you’re using an inverter to convert DC to AC power, you can check the AC draw of the appliance, but it’s hard to know just how much will be lost in the conversion. It’s often in the 10-20% range, again meaning that you’ll be using more DC power than you estimated (unless you included the conversion loss in your estimate).
- If you are sailing (motor off) you’ll use more power than at anchor due to instruments, autopilot and radar in addition to all the “normal stuff.”
We’ve also found that what the manufacturer calls an “average draw” for an appliance that cycles (such as a refrigerator) often just doesn’t match what happens in real life. They may say it’ll run 20% of the time . . . but assume that the door isn’t opening, you’re not putting anything warm in, and the temperature is 70 degrees. So they may say it has an average draw of 2 amps, or 48 amp-hours a day.
Then you’re getting into it a dozen or more times a day, putting a dozen warm drinks in, and the temperature outside is 90+. Suddenly it’s running 50% of the time and actually drawing 120 amp-hours a day. That’s a difference of 72 amp-hours between the numbers you used for your energy budget and what your actual need is (NOTE: these numbers are for illustration only and probably don’t reflect your refrigerator usage — in very hot weather we’ve had our refrigerator run 56 minutes out of every hour; in cool spells, it may run only 10 minutes an hour.)
The Solar Output
How much a given wattage of solar panel will actually put out on a given day — or even on average — is equally uncertain. Was it cloudy? Sunny? Did the boat lie so that there were shadows on the panels for part of the day? How many hours of usable sun are there where you are? How clean are the panels? If you’re sailing, your sails are likely to shade one or more of your panels, too.
Again, you can make some general estimates but realize that they are only estimates. And yes, the brand/technology of the panel(s) and the charge controller will play a role in the actual production.
Bottom Line
The bottom line is that until you start cruising in your intended cruising grounds with your setup, it’s impossible to know if it’s adequate or not.
Take us, for example. We put a 345-watt high voltage solar panel with a Kid by Midnite Solar MPPT controller on the boat last spring. At the time, it was more than adequate for our needs even with a watermaker We were fully topped up by 11 AM or noon most days. But we had a propane refrigerator, which we just changed to a 12v model. So our demand has gone up.
But how much has it gone up? We don’t know exactly and it will vary from day to day.
And the question remains: How much solar power do we need?
Well, we think we have enough, but we won’t know for sure until we get back in the water in a couple of weeks and start cruising. I can do all sorts of “how much solar” calculations, but the proof will be in actual use. (And yes, we have a generator as a backup.)
And that’s my main point here — the worksheets can help you estimate your usage and how much solar power you might need, but realize that they are only estimates.
If you don’t already have one, a battery monitor is invaluable for telling you if your batteries are being sufficiently charged and how much power you do have. The battery monitor gives you the real story. Read about battery monitors here.
Another thing to remember: I’ve never met anyone who said they’d put too much solar on their boat.
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helen Bell says
Cpt is working on a lithium battery/solar website that has a load calculator that has lots of variables to help you figure your usuage more accurately. He has included usuage demands for each appliance such as light, medium and heavy. Also a place for you to add other things that are unique to your boat. Like you said, Carolyn, it can’t be totally accurate as our needs change but it is pretty close. And knowing where you will be cruising in advance helps. We have lots of electrical things on our boat that lots of others probably do not have. Cptn designed our whole battery management system on our boat. We have been living aboard for over a year now. We do not use marinas at all. We have 1200Kw of solar,1600Ah of batteries (in two banks) and a 7Kw alternator. No generator.
helen Bell says
Cptns website is a work in progress and any input would be appreciated. Also if there are items you want added please let us know. Thanks Carolyn. Love reading your articles
Dave Skolnick (S/V Auspicious) says
Helen – I think you need to check your numbers. 1,200 kW (1.2 MW or 1,200,000 W) of solar can’t be right. Similarly I don’t think you have a 7,000 W alternator that would be a 500 A alternator. That would have to be either direct drive or five (or more) belts.
Helen Bell says
Sorry you are right. That is 1200 watts of solar but the alternator is indeed 7kw. It puts out 300 amps max at 28v and we use a 1 1/2″ cogged timing belt to drive it. It is brushless DC and when the engine is running at 1600rpm we can still generate more than 200 amps. This allows us to fully charge our lithium batteries very quickly.
Carolyn Shearlock says
Helen, I think maybe autocorrect got you and changed your solar watts to kilowatts. 1200 watts is still a LOT of solar for a boat!
Helen Bell says
Sorry you are right. That is 1200 watts of solar..we run air con, fridges, freezers microwave, toaster, bread maker to name a few.
Dave Skolnick (S/V Auspicious) says
An energy audit is only as good as the person who does it. It is the implementation where many of us fail and your point is well taken. In engineering that is where we add a safety margin. *grin*
Your point is well taken about the difficulty, particularly for people just starting out, in making good estimates of usage.
The very best thing you can do is go sailing for a season and use a battery monitor to regularly track usage. That means some other way of charging, for most of us running the main engine which isn’t all that good for it.
Otherwise you use good engineering practice, make the very best estimates you can, get more experienced counsel, and apply a safety margin. Plan for growth with time.
The magnitude of a safety margin is driven by the confidence in the data and the implications of over specification. Some things (battery capacity or solar output) you really can’t get too big. Others (generator size) too big can be as bad as too small.
For solar I would not be shy. A safety factor of 2 would be a nice start and then see if you can make those panels fit your boat.
You can’t have too much solar or too many batteries. *grin*
ChrisW says
Well, done.
Having solarized-LED-ed our boat more than five years ago, and being statistics junkies, we were challenged by “amp hour budgeting,” and then we hit on another approach which pares well with yours.
Firmly believing deep cycle batteries should never be discharged more than 50% (and we shoot for no more than 30%), we simply sized our solar array to restore that much charge by mid afternoon the following day.
We assumed a latitude where we would be running the engine the least, since our ICW travel would provide plenty of alternator amps, but our island anchoring wouldn’t.
We double checked this against the budget and found the panel wattage allowed room for usage growth even it good battery management didn’t.
Since taking this approach we have only found it necessary to plug in at a dock for air conditioning during the worst of the summer heat.
Solar is not free energy to start with, but the payback, given Florida and Bahamas electric rate cost avoidance has been 25 months rather than the original estimate of 60 months.– and now its free.
Debbie Bowen Crawford says
Doug Crawford
Arion McCartney says
I have been reading all the solar and wind posts that I come across. I see that everyone uses the rated ah’s for appliances, but those ratings are for normal running, I have not seen where anyone has tried to add in the energy that is used for the start-up of those motors which is much greater than the running energy.
Carolyn Shearlock says
The start up is momentary and thus is an insignificant percentage of the total draw by an appliance over its total usage.
Jenn Cole says
As always, useful advice and gets me thinking more broadly … thanks
Raquel Hernandez says
Brian Liddy
Vito DeLorenzo says
I see Alex from SeaTek in marathon FL in the picture
Vito DeLorenzo says
Alex at SeaTek is now installing lithium ion batteries !!
Helen Bell says
We have lithium iron phosphate batteeies (LiFePo4) we’ve been using them for over a year now..they are great
LaMarr Harding says
Photovoltaics flat on a Bimini or deck house don’t get the full effect or their rated power.
So the cheaper and more practical for me was just get more panels. I hate to admit that I’ve ran out of room. It’s still safer and more practical than to track the Sun
Chris Tyler says
Alex Miller
SV SeaGlub says
Our two cents is get as much solar as you can comfortably fit on the boat. Once installed the energy produced is FREE! Both from a cost and maintenance perspective. This year we increased from 440 watts to 640 watts using the same area on the boat. One other thing to mention about when calculating usage / production is that solar panels will be somewhat less efficient as temperatures rise as you head to lower latitudes.
Bill Jackson says
As much as will fit.
Tobias Stricker says
What you need as installed renewable energy?
As much as you can install!
That simple.
Cruising boats are today swimming electronic device, just like cars are computer today. The demand is rising continuounsly. And solar panels are not this expensive any more. The limit is the space available to install them.
Cory Nickerson says
The big issue for me was the more solar I add the more my energy needs increase. First the coffee maker… then the box fans…then the standalone freezer. Time for another 300 watter
Catherine Gilbert says
Excellent and insightful article as usual Carolyn!! We’ve also experienced the impact of heat on the solar panels and therefore producing less than expected, and of course shadowing which is difficult to control as the boat swings on anchor. We added a wind generator as well which is a good pairing for us as it helps many nights with preventing the drain from being quite so deep overnight, allowing the batteries to recover more quickly once the sun comes up in the morning. I think your most salient point is that no-one can tell you how much you really need until YOU get out there living the life – that is the only way to really know how much and what combination of energy retrieval will work for you. Thanks again for a good read!
Gregory Thompson says
Carolyn, based on your recent trip to the Bahamas, how did you make out solar vs battery and power needs
Carolyn Shearlock says
Really well. We ran our Honda generator 3 times and each time was when we had extended cloudy days due to tropical systems. We never used shore power in a marina or bought water.
James says
Hello, which Honda generator and how did you soften the vibration or mitigate the noise? Gas? I have a dual source gas/propane generator, good choice to go propane and avoid the gas aspect?
Carolyn Shearlock says
We have the Honda 2000i, which is now the 2200. We just set it on deck. If you use propane, you’ll go through a LOT of it. In many places (such as Bahamas or any remote location) it’s hard to get and expensive. While we don’t really like carrying gas, we do.
SV Coexist says
Another great post! Thanks
Sandra Renwick says
Great information Caroline, what kind of water maker do you have and do you have air conditioning as well that you run on your boat?
Carolyn Shearlock says
We have a Katadyn PowerSurvivor 80E — 3.5 gallons per hour, draws 10 amps when running. Most days we ran it for 2 hours. We do not have boat air conditioning (used a portable one last summer when we were on the hard all summer).
Sandra Renwick says
Sorry spelt your name incorrectly, Carolyn.
Carolyn Shearlock says
No prob!
Laine Common says
Nathan Common
Rosalind Franks says
John Woodworth
Joshua Thompson says
Drew
Drew Skelton says
570 watts going on.
Dawn Read says
Lucky, we were just talking about this this very morning. Check it.
Ronald Harbin says
Great post – thanks for the reality check. I agree with you 100%. I’ve made spreadsheets and done all the calcs. That’s one main reason why I’m going for a mini (1 to 2 week) cruise on the Chesapeake this summer – to make sure my 165 watts of solar will handle my loads. I’m mostly solo and am pretty conscious of my energy in and out. I’m heading for the Bahamas next winter and have a plan that includes good habits like charging devices only when the engine is running etc.
Warik Hunt says
I would say the need for solar power will depend on what you’re running and how long you’re running it for. Ie lights fridge freezer computers radios sonar etc etc
SV Pearl Lee says
Moving our boat from Wisconsin to Florida we ran into one factor we hadn’t considered. Being aboard in winter means shorter days and less production. In our case about a 30% drop. ~ Tom
CJ Grabenstein says
We added an extra 100w over the winter as this happened to us too!
The Boat Galley says
Less production, but also somewhat less usage for fridge and fans. We also run our waterrmaker off 12v (solar) and make more water in summer as we drink more, and rinse off from showering more. Not quite a perfect trade-off, but close.
SV Pearl Lee says
We came up a bit short in December. We’re about to add some more. ~ Tom
Scott Beachbum says
Pretty good real life demo on solar issues on the Gone with the Wynns vlog.
http://www.gonewiththewynns.com/Sailboat-Solar-Series-Parallel-Shading
The Boat Galley says
Good info there, but note that they have one of the biggest arrays I’ve seen on a family boat. We do quite well on 345 watts, all in one panel 🙂 and we run refrig, watermaker and electronic toys as well as fans, lights, pumps, etc.
Scott Beachbum says
I guess that is the biggest advantage to having a Cat.
Lots of space to farm the sun!
Bill McNutt says
More, duh. You need MORE.
Doug Treff says
It’s like trying to estimate how much money or water you will need for cruising. Everyone makes informed decisions about all these resources… be they money, water, or Amps. Using too much money? Eat out less. Using too much water? Shower less, or get a water maker. Using too many amps? The off some unneeded accessories. Everything is a tradeoff. But generally all the comments are right. I’ve test to hear of anyone who installs TOO MUCH solar.
David Haley says
you need solar and a Elon Musk Battery.
Garry Rosier says
I didn’t do any usage estimates. I just installed as much sola as I had space for. Two 320 watt panels, and 440 AH of battery storage. So far so good.
Jennifer Lynch says
Newbie here and I’m lookin at a Cat with 1005 W of solar its 47″ foot. I have no idea if this is a normal amount to run everything. I wouldn’t go with ac or modern amenites.
Carolyn Shearlock says
We have a 34′ boat with 345 watts. I’d say that 1005 is good.